Cine lenses
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GUIDE Sony a7S II Guide

Cine lenses

In this lesson we’ll take a look at cine primes and zooms. For information on the Sony 28-135mm cine zoom, please refer to the lesson on Sony lenses. If you need help in deciding on a cine lens as opposed to a still camera lens, read what is a cine lens and how is it […]

In this lesson we’ll take a look at cine primes and zooms. For information on the Sony 28-135mm cine zoom, please refer to the lesson on Sony lenses.

If you need help in deciding on a cine lens as opposed to a still camera lens, read what is a cine lens and how is it different from photo lenses?

Zeiss CP.2

There are some ‘problems’ with using cine lenses on the Sony a7R II and a7S II:

  • Cine lenses will make handholding unwieldy, if not impossible.
  • It will be harder to turn the focus ring because you’ll have to turn it a lot more, and it’s bigger.
  • You will need larger filters or matte boxes.
  • There are only two manufacturers that make full frame cine lenses for the Sony E mount.
  • There are no cheap options for the full range of focal lengths.

There is nothing that can be done for the first option, except to use a proper rig and follow focus system. No free lunch here.

The cine lenses for the full frame sensor, in the Sony E-mount, are:

  • Samyang (Bower, Rokinon, et al) – the XEEN series
  • Samyang, the DS line – the pseudo-cine line
  • Zeiss CP.2

The other two options you can use (with adapters) are:

  • Canon CN-E
  • Schneider Xenon FF

Which mount should you pick – E or PL?

This is an important consideration. Should you stick to the Sony E mount, or should you opt for a better mount?

Given a choice, cine lenses are better off with the PL mount. However, all PL-mount lenses must interface with an adapter, so the adapter must be strong, stable and must provide good support so the E mount is not strained. The E mount isn’t really designed to hold heavy cine lenses, especially zooms. Primes are okay, but not for handholding.

All things considered, I prefer the PL mount. Assuming you have an excellent adapter that has been shimmed for focus accuracy, it also allows you these benefits:

  • An additional support for heavy lenses so the E-mount isn’t taxed.
  • Lock-on ring to keep the lens secure.
  • Four different orientations, so the focus puller can work more freely.

Recommended cine prime lenses for the Sony a7R II and a7S II

For the budget-conscious

If you have a limited budget, then don’t look further than the Rokinon/Samyang line:

Rokinon Cine DS Samyang Cine VDSLR II Rokinon XEEN (114)
Lens Approx Price Lens Approx Price Lens Approx Price
12mm T3.1 Fisheye (N) $519 12mm T3.1 Fisheye (N) $549
14mm T3.1 (N) $499 14mm T3.1 (N) $349
24mm T1.5 (77) $779 24mm T1.5 (77) $799 24mm T1.5 $2,495
35mm T1.5 (77) $499 35mm T1.5 (77) $469
50mm T1.5 (77) $541 50mm T1.5 (77) $434 50mm T1.5 $2,495
85mm T1.5 (72) $374 85mm T1.5 (72) $369 85mm T1.5 $2,495
100mm T3.1 (67) $599
135mm T2.2 (77) $599
Cost of full set $3,211 Cost of full set $4,167 Cost of full set $7,485

Note: Information in brackets is the filter thread diameter in mm. Prices and specs might be wrong. Please refer to manufacturers’ websites for correct information.

Rokinon Cine DS or Samyang Cine VDSLR II?

If you’re on a budget, I recommend the Rokinon DS line. Here are its advantages over the Samyang cine lenses:

  • Color matched
  • Same position for aperture and focus wheels
  • Dual focusing scales on both sides

I would avoid all the earlier versions.

For those who don’t know, DS lenses are rehoused Rokinon primes with the focus and iris rings all at the exact same distance, so you don’t have to change follow focus or iris gears with every lens change. That saves a lot of time on set.

However, where these fall short are they are not all the same length, size or weight, which cine lenses are supposed to be. If lenses are the same length, you don’t have to reposition the matte box with every lens change. If lenses are at different lengths and weights, it takes time to reposition your rig and adjust rod lengths. Finally, if the outer diameter isn’t the same size, you will need different matte box adapters for each lens change. All this eats up precious time on set.

Let’s not be under the impression that Rokinons/Samyangs can replace real cine lenses, but for bang for buck – they are unmatched. I absolutely recommend them, as long as you know what you’re getting into.

What about XEEN?

I don’t think it’s good value for money. When you buy a full set, you want world-class service, great rental options, easy replacements and good resale value. If you need to compromise on any of these, then it must be offset by better image quality than those listed below.

The XEEN falls last on all these fronts.

What about the fringe players?

SLR Magic Cine 50mm f/1.1 Lens – One lens does not a kit make, but it does give you an f/1.1. Buy at your own risk.

Tokina Cinema AT-X 100mm T2.9 Macro – this is a rehoused still lens.

Great options

These are the best options for cine primes at the moment:

Zeiss CP.2 (114) Canon (with Adapter) (114) Schneider Xenon FF (with Adapter) (95)
Lens Approx Price Lens Approx Price Lens Approx Price
15mm T2.9 $ 5,700 14mm T3.1 $ 5,220
18mm T3.6 $ 3,990
21mm T2.9 $ 3,990
25mm T2.1 $ 4,500 24mm T1.5 $ 5,220 25mm T2.1 $ 5,750
28mm T2.1 $ 3,990
35mm T1.5 $ 4,900 35mm T1.5 $ 4,950
35mm T2.1 $ 3,990 35mm T2.1 $ 3,995
50mm T1.5 $ 4,500 50mm T1.3 $ 4,950
50mm T2.1 $ 3,990 50mm T2.1 $ 3,995
50mm T2.1 Makro (134) $ 4,900
85mm T1.5 $ 4,500 85mm T1.3 $ 4,950
85mm T2.1 $ 3,990 75mm T2.1 $ 3,995
100mm T2.1 $ 4,900 100mm T2.1 $ 3,995
135mm T2.1 $ 5,700 135mm T2.2 $ 4,950
Cost of full set $ 63,540 Cost of full set $ 30,240 Cost of full set $ 21,730

Note: Information in brackets is the filter thread diameter in mm. Prices and specs might be wrong. Please refer to manufacturers’ websites for correct information.

For the serious professional, the Zeiss CP.2 line offers the most focal lengths, if you want the entire range, that is. The Schneider Xenon FF series offers the following benefits (not completely verified by independent reviewers):

  • Better color matching.
  • Tougher construction and build quality (though the distributor told me it’s similar to CP.2).
  • Small front element and diameter, so you can use 4×4 filters most of the time.
  • Longer body, so you can easily space iris and focus gears on a rig.

I have personally shot on the CP.2, and have only handled the Xenon FF. I cannot make a recommendation based on this, but I would go for either, depending on what you were after.

Based on current information, if I had to pick, I would go with the Zeiss CP.2 line, no doubt. Not only is it versatile, but it has been field tested by rental houses over many years, and have worldwide sales and service. Lastly, it also color matches with its zoom cousins (below).

What about cine-mods?

Yes, and no. It seems unlikely that any manufacturer will make great cine lenses in the sub-$1,000 price range, so the next best option is to modify a still lens for cinema work. The three companies that have been doing this for a while and have sufficient track records are:

  • Duclos Lenses – $250 for a full cine-mod, and $409 for a cine-mod plus mount change (you need to contact them for Sony E-mount at present)
  • GL Optics – they also provide casing modifications, and the prices run greater than $3,000 per lens. For primes, the charges are too high. For zooms, they might be a bargain (considering the prices of cine zooms)!
  • Lockcircle PrimeCircle XE or XM – XE is electronic control, rehoused Zeiss ZE.2 lenses, and XM is fully manual, rehoused Zeiss ZF.2 lenses. The price is a bit too much, considering Duclos can cine-mod the same lenses much cheaper. Also, Zeiss has moved on to the Milvus line, so you can get great deals in the used market.

These services don’t have a worldwide presence, so you must be aware that replacements and service will be slow; and if you want a quick replacement in an emergency you likely won’t find the exact same lens.

Cine zoom lenses

This is where cine-mods make sense. Zoom lenses for full frame sensors are as rare as UFO sightings:

Lens Approx Price Mount (Filter thread)
Sony FE PZ 28-135mm f/4 $2,498 E (95)
Tokina 16-28mm T3.0* $3,999 EF/PL (114)
Zeiss LWZ.2 15.5-45mm T2.6 $19,900 EF/PL (114)
Zeiss 15-30mm CZ.2 T2.9 $23,900 E (114)
Zeiss 28-80mm T2.9 CZ.2 $19,900 E (95)
Zeiss 70-200mm T2.9 CZ.2 $19,900 E (95)

*The other Tokina zooms only cover Super35mm. It would be the rare individual who will buy a $20K zoom for a $3K camera.

HawkAnamorphic

What about the big boys – Arri, Cooke, Angenieux?

You can use spherical lenses that cover the Super35mm image circle with the a7S II and a7R II, but only in APS-C mode. They will not cover full frame (36mm x24mm).

The APS-C mode has a 1.5x crop, while standard S35 has a crop factor of about 1.3-1.4*. Here’s a table that shows how much image circle each format needs:

Format Image area Image circle
4-perf film 24.89 mm × 18.66 mm 31mm
Alexa 4:3 23.76mm x 17.82mm 30mm
a7S II / a7R II APS-C 24mm x 13.5mm 28mm
FF 36mm x 24mm 43mm

Most cine lenses are only designed to cover about 31mm. The only cine lenses that cover full frame as of NAB 2015 is Zeiss CP.2, Canon CN-E and Schneider Xenon FF.

The introduction of DSLRs in cinema has made the word ‘full frame’ confusing. I use it with reference to 36x24mm, I.e., the real full frame of a 35mm area. I have an article about it here: https://wolfcrow.com/blog/what-is-the-35mm-equivalent-and-why-is-it-confusing/

*Using ClearImage Zoom, you might be able to get the frame up to 1.3 or 1.4.

What about anamorphic lenses from Hawk, etc.?

Technically, you can use them in APS-C mode, but the squeeze factor will limit its usability. Most traditional anamorphic primes are made with a 2x factor, and it needs an aspect ratio of 4:3 to work. The a7R II and a7S II only allow for 16:9, so a 2x squeeze will result in an aspect ratio of 3.55:1, and you’ll be forced to chop off the sides to get 2.39:1.

What happens if you use 2x on the a7S II and a7R II in APS C mode? Here’s an example with a 28mm lens:

  • 28mm normally translates to 56mm in 2x anamorphic
  • In APS-C mode, 28mm becomes a 42mm equivalent
  • With 2x, 42mm becomes an 84mm equivalent
  • Because you have to crop from 3.55 to 2.39, the 84mm becomes a 125mm equivalent!!
  • To get the same 56mm, working backwards, you’ll need a 12mm anamorphic lens!

However, you could get by with a 1.33x anamorphic lens or adapter, though those are rare and not very good, I think. Shooting anamorphic with the a7R II and a7S II is a thankless exercise.

What about cheap anamorphic adapters?

I’m not a fan of these, to be honest, and have no experience to recommend any.